"Autism roll" in babies | Autism PDD

Wow, thanks for that link! I kind of thought the therapist was a bit odd when she mentioned that to us, but once we thought it over it made sense. I wonder WHY they roll over like that? OK, I have to tell you that since I read this to my husband last night, we are going to pull out Michael's baby videos because you have gotten us so curious! We should start a poll...I'll let you know if we catch a roll on video!That's so crazy. My child rolled over in a full body fashion. Never even
crawled until 12 mo. He was already "cruising" a couple of months by then.
I think it was perhaps early signs of his vestibular sensory issues. This
whole bilateral coordination thing seems to be pretty pervasive in lots of
kids (ie that 'when did your kids first ride a trike?' thread) I think this is very
interesting...anyone else?I have seen these studys before and it was one of the things I was looking out for when Nina started to roll. I really hope that these kinds of observations end up being the key to early detection in infants. It's LONG been known that children who turn out to have dyslexia at school age oftentimes did not crawl at all. Clearly, these early neurological signs are indications of brain anomalies that may later manifest in developmental and/or learning issues. Wish most pediatricians had a better clue early on. I'm going to print out these links and give them to my son's ped.OMG! I didn't do this, nor did my son, but my brother did! We thought it was funny and did it with him. Other than that, I don't really know anything about it. Nobody ever asked Lucas to roll over. Aha! Maybe that's why it took him until 11 to give him his dx Wow. Aiden rolled and "crawled" like the babies in the article. In fact, he never really crawled. He galloped on his bum, with one leg forward and one back, for about a month before learning to walk, usually only using one arm for balance - definitely asymmetrical. My youngest rolled "en bloc," as they describe, but crawled normally.

There are a few things about him that concern me as we watch for autistic traits, but nothing sticks out as not being something that couldn't be part of normal NT development. He's very communicative, points well and plays normally with toys (already uses anything that resembles a car as a car, rolling it around going "doom, doom (vroom, vroom)," uses anything that looks like a phone as a phone, putting it to the side of his head and chatting into it imitatively: "Hi. Yeah. Garble babble babble. Bye bye."

Aiden was sometimes communicative, but rarely communicated effectively to get what he wanted as a baby (food, drink, a toy - like he expected people to be psychic and know what he wanted), never gestured non-verbally (no pointing, no head shaking, no nodding), did not play with toys in the normal way. So I see a lot of differences between them, but the rolling over thing is I guess one thing to take note of if in the future, we see more signs. Thanks very much for the link.

There was a study done where they looked at videotapes of babies who were later diagnosed as autistic.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9500EFDD1539F 935A15752C0A96F958260&sec=health&pagewanted=print [quote]For example, none of the autistic babies in the tapes learned to roll over like normal children did, he said. Normal babies use a corkscrew motion to go from back to stomach or vice versa. Starting at about 3 months, they first turn their pelvis to one side, followed by the trunk and finally the shoulders and head. By 6 months, the order is reversed: the head goes first and the rest of the body parts follow, corkscrew fashion.

Some of the autistic babies in the tapes never learned to roll over. Others did, but in a peculiar fashion, Dr. Teitelbaum said. Starting from lying on their sides, they rolled to their stomachs or backs by raising heads and pelvises. Then they threw the upper legs forward and toppled over, moving all body segments together. [/quote]

This is the link for the study and it has pictures of the babies rolling over:http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/23/13982

I never heard of this. HOwever, I do remember before my son was 9 mos. old that he was not crawling (he finally learned to crawl just in time to make the "milestone" on time) but, when he saw something at the other side of the room that he wanted, he would roll all the way across the room to get it. I don't actually remember "how" he rolled, but it could have been like a log. He started crawling at 9 months and started "cruising" a couple of weeks later, finally taking his first steps at 12.5 months and walking completely unaided at 13.5 months -- never toddling -- just gettin up and walking perfectly. All these ages are within the normal range, but I never heard about anyone else's child rolling as a form of locomotion, but mine did.I might have done this once or twice but the memories are faint I was older when i did that though thats how i can remember it so well.

I had a really nice time in therapy and had a nice therapist and had alot of fun.

I remember there was this Hammock Swing l (I think this was done so i could feel comftorable in my bed ) and she would push it and i really enjoyed that.

Hope all goes well for him.
My 5 yo ds just started sensory intregration therapy with a wonderful therapist. It was our first visit, and she was so very patient and answered a million questions for us. We had our 8 mo old ds there, and she asked if we had any concerns about him being on the spectrum. We do. She watched him for a bit, then watched how he rolled over. He put his leg up and over, then used his arms to make the roll over. So he used his arms AND legs to help him roll over. She said that is NOT an "autistic roll." She asked if we remember when our 5 yo ds was a baby, if we remember him rolling over like a log? Meaning did he just roll over not using his arms or legs for momentum, just rolling over with arms and legs not helping him. We said yes, he did roll like that, but we never thought anything of it until she mentioned it. Anyone else ever hear of this? bumped to answer a question in another thread

Now thinking back I remember that ds only rolled from front to back. Took a long time for him to learn back to front. He also only rolled one way - meaning- towards one side, I can't remember which one. His arm always got in the way when he tried to go the other way. Then he started sitting up, crawling and walking (all on time) so we never thought about it again. I'm sure he never did it that I ever saw.

Cat

Thanks for sharing that. I never thought about it. DD did roll like a log. She crawled a little late, but she rolled everywhere. SHe even rolled alot after she could crawl. OH MY GOODNESS! I have never seen anything like this! My 4 YO clearly displayed symptoms as a baby that I never realized until now. He was a very late roller to begin with, and didn't crawl until probably 10 months, didn't walk until 14 1/2. I think NT kids also can crawl late and walk late. Some never crawl at all - and I believe a lot of them are just fine. I never crawled forward on my hands and knees - I apparently only crawled backward. And I didn't walk until I was almost 16 months old. This is all still within the range of "normal". While I definitely have coordination issues, I am a fully-functioning member of society and I have my master's degree in social work! Until I made the decision to stop working outside the home for pay when I had my kids, I had very good jobs that all involved working with kids and families. So, while some of this may be true - it is retrospective. We are looking back for a connection. There may be one - but it is an association, not a cause and effect. In other words, not all kids who don't crawl or crawl late have neurological deficits and/or will have autism.

Well, ds rolled over at 3 1/2 months old from back to front. Then front to back about a month later. I do not recall him every rolling without using his arms. In fact, I vividly remember when he was trying to roll that he would really get his arm and leg into it and he would ALMOST make it and then not quite. I haven't seen him roll in a while, but I know that in tumbling class they were asked to roll like a log a gentle slope and ds had a hard time doing that (this was when he was 3 1/2). I know he does it fine now - but now I'm curious too...

Ds didn't crawl until 9 1/2 months and he too would roll across the room to get something he wanted. He didn't walk until right before 14 months. My dd didn't crawl on all fours until 10 1/2 months, but army-crawled at 7 months. I can't remember how she rolled, but I doubt it was much different as I would have noticed that. Both kids rolled on time, although dd was a little later than ds - he was a little early though on that one. He actually rolled over onto his side the first time I placed him in his crib - when he was 2 days old! For that one I'm sure he didn't use his arms and legs, but I'm pretty sure the rest of the time he did - as he didn't roll again until 3 1/2 months old.

snoopywoman39087.7495601852WOW. That article, the second poster posted. It just brought back that first year - Gage always did everything a little "different". It is so strange how you don't notice these things until you compare them with an NT child - my daughter's babyhood was so much different than my son's. It kinda makes me sad, but he was so dang cute that I honestly thought everything he did was so adorable it didn't matter to me how weird it was! I didn't know any better at the time.

This is great and very interesting - I am going to look at older videos of R

He acheived all his physical milestones perfectly - he is much better coordinated than other kids I think

he rolled over at 5 months

Crawled, sat up and walked etc at the right time or much earlier

Of course I have nothing to compare to as he is my only child

This is very interesting. I never thought about it until now, but my ds would roll from front to back (log roll) and his arm always got in the way. He didn't crawl on hands and knees until AFTER he learned to walk. He did what I have always called the "army crawl", he pulled himself with his arms, both arms bent inward toward his chest putting one in front of the other. I always thought it was a bit odd, but never put two and two together.

Now with our dx, there are alot of things that he did when he was really little that stand out in my mind.

Thanks for bringing this topic up, it all makes sense now.

I've read that study before but Jason never rolled like that (he rolled "normal") so I don't hold much stock in its predicitve value. Wow. never heard of that. And don't remember how Jaden rolled.

Did anyone come across any video footage showing the "log" rolling? I have searched the internet but cannot seem to find anything.

Regards,

Roxanne

what is the tilt test????? If he falls he falls hard right over :( I don't know if that is bad or not

Hi there,

If you go to www.webmd.com and then type in infant autism there will be a video that you can watch. I think it has the name Diagnosing Infant Autism or something like that. You will know you have the right one if there are two people by the name of Tietelbaum doing the research and they show the actual tilt test in the video.

Let me know how you go...good luck!

snetting I would have said that is the right kind of roll cause he uses his legs and they go over first. That is how all 3 of mine rolled I think, I need to go dig out old videos. Its hard to picture and I really didn't see any rolls in that webmd video, but my understanding is that an autistic child tilts the pelvis first and doesn't use the arms or legs. I do remember though that the boys would topple right over and not use their hands to catch themselves. It didn't take long though for them to start using them after banging their heads a few times.
My experience is similar to Elle22...
My DS was having gross motor skill delay and I was concerned enough to bring it up to the Ped at 7 mos. He was not sitting unassisted and when he did , he would fall over very easily. The key here was 'how' he sat and 'how' he fell. I know all babies do that, but DS would sit very stiffly, with his legs straight out for balance and his arms sort of in the air..sometimes 'twisting'( I now know a stim for him). When he lost his balance, he did not put his hand or arm out to catch himself. This was odd.

When I mentioned it to the Ped during a check up , he sat DS on the table and pushed him over a little( tilting him) to show me how all babies 'instinctively' put out an arm to catch themselves. Well, as he was describing it- my DS DIDNT brace himself!! BUT- the Ped still 'glossed' over it and said I am sure everything is fine.
UGHHH!

My DS also rolled awkwardly, like the pelvis/hip thrust first and then sort of hoisting himself over. Then he got stuck on his belly and could not roll over forever. He then sometimes got his arm stuck in awkward way behind his back.

The PT who evaluated him during the EI eval( at 10 mos) said he has low muscle tone and that is why a lot of these movements were different for him and that he would need to work to learn the right ones.

From what I understand though, not every child with an ASD has low muscle tone, I think I read maybe about 30% do.

I think that may be why some kiddos show no gross motor skill delays or issues and some do. In my case, it did 'catapult' us into evaluations and go the ball rolling into PT and then OT and now a developmental therapist. No one mentioned ASD until now.

denise
My son didn't roll over till quite late. Never crawled. Couldn't get up till quite late, but cruised on time and walked on his 1st birthday party!Very interesting study & all. Our dd's motor skills first appeared as delayed
at 6 mos of age (she was also missing reflexes she should have & still had
newborn reflexes she should have lost by 6 mos), she was dx w/ hypotonia
& that led to the start of all her neuro & genetic evals, and subsequent dxs.
Our ped was ON the ball! They were not quick to dx autism, that just
happened the last couple mos. But, they were quick to get her into PT, OT,
ST, etc. That article, all the descriptions of the autistic children, fit our dd to
a T. The roll really amazed me, dd struggled with this & was VERY delayed
in this area. When she was finally able to roll, it was more like a flop, and
we'd have to move her arms for her (they'd twist or get stuck under her).

so is this the wrong kind of roll? this is my 7 month old. Be honest!

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/snetting13/?action=vi ew&current=b92f4608.flv

hayley

Hi Hayley,

I am sorry as I do not have experience with the roll myself and was hoping to find out what an autistic roll looked like. Maybe others could put up some video of a "log" roll so we have a comparison?

Just out of curiosity, have you performed the tilt test on Nolan? They say it is best to video that as well to see. My son is only 19 weeks and as soon as he hits 24 weeks I will be trying that as they say the best time is between 6 and 8 months.

Do you have footage of your older son? I have a 5 year old as well and he rolls a bit crazy in the footage and he is definitely NT.

Regards,

Roxanen