Pointing | Autism PDD

[QUOTE=JM77]

Hello All,

Pointing is a good sign of communication.  Delays can be caused by things other than autism.  Your best bet would be to find out how to access Early Intervention in your state and get a full eval from them.[QUOTE=NorwayMom]

Another thing to look for is does your child look at you while pointing to make sure you have picked up on what he's trying to communicate?

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That is what all the doctors were asking me about and tested themself.

Thank you all for answers and thank you NorwayMom for the conclusion (very acurate).

Oh,  yes, one of the screening questions was to do with leading you by the hand.

I have tendinitis in my finger!  I get dragged by the finger quite a bit!

My son has not pointed yet, nor will he look in the direction that I am pointing. He usually takes my hand and leads me somewhere, if he feels it is important. Like turning on a video

A couple months ago, I did some research about pointing.  This is what I concluded: 

The impression I got after a quick googling is that it is the absence of pointing, or severe delay of pointing that is the main concern.  The fact that your child points at all is a good sign, I would think.

You could try and observe if and how your child points in situations where there is something interesting to look at, inspired by this psych experiment:

http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327647JCD0202_1

I interpret this experiment as saying this:

- The pointing behavior of a 1 year old is like saying "Let's look at that."  They'll point at something interesting even though the parent has already seen it, because they want to enjoy the joint attention.

- The pointing behavior of a 2 year old is like saying "Turn around and take a look at that!"  They point because they notice that the parent hasn't seen the interesting object.

Another thing to look for is does your child look at you while pointing to make sure you have picked up on what he's trying to communicate?

I also get the sense that pointing is initially an extension of the reaching gesture.  (You can read about it in this psych article if you want  http://lchc.ucsd.edu/DissEdu/COGR261.W06/webboard/261webboar d2.htm). 

That might explain why some children don't point to unreachable objects.  Such a child might need to be taught directly to generalize pointing behaviors into new situations.

Hope this helps.

My daughter used to point with her middle finger when she was 2 years old.  We have been correcting her and now she only does it sometimes.  It was really funny when we were stopped at a red light and she would point to a school bus.  People in the neighboring cars would just be puzzled and then smile coz she is just too cute.  :)

mom2asd

Yes, sorry. I didn't mean it to sound like a dx tool (pointing to show). It's more like statistics.The boys pointed late in life too, and we had to put our hand on theirs and teach them to point. they are pretty good at it now and point in all the ways on that list.

One other thing I have noticed is when I point to something, he just looks at what is behind my finger (he sights down my finger, rather than look where my finger is pointing). I figure this is a typical ASD thing where everything is referenced from his point of view. When he points he does the same thing, he actually closes one eye and looks down his finger. It is as if he doesn't understand that the finger has a direction to it, just a tip to sight down

Ah yes, I forgot about that - following a point. My son does have difficulty with that - I usually have to describe something near it so he gets a reference point. I think that is more a visual processing problem - we are going to get a "learning exam" from an eye doctor here in just a few weeks to test for this. Just like my husband, my ds could look in a drawer that has 8 objects in it and not be able to find the one he is looking for...

I told the autism coach, "You just described my HOUSE!"

My son had to be taught to point.  Absolutely no pointing until we did hand over hand and repeated attempts to teach (estimate it took about 5 hours over the course of a month).  He usually only points when asked what do you want?  (still not seeing any "spontaneous" pointing to direct our attention yet)My son could point to request things which was very good because it was critical for starting speech/communication. When a child points to request something, at least you know your child is beginning to understand the process of communication and many ASD children have trouble with this though my child did not. The part of pointing that almost all ASD kids seem to have trouble with is pointing to share interest, ie; a plane flies overhead and your child gets excited points to the plane and then looks at you to make sure you see it too. Another thing my son had trouble with was following my point. So that if I pointed to something across the room and told him to look it was hit or miss whether he could follow my point well.[QUOTE=lilid][QUOTE=JM77]

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WOW.  That is jsut what I began describing in my dd!

I would still be concerned. My ds started pointing exactly at 13 months - I was relieved at the time because I thought, Oh good - he is doing it even though he's a little late. I was told 12 months for pointing by pediatrician and by books. He pointed to things and when he got words around 16 months, he would tell me what it was. He pointed to things in books. He would point to things he wanted. And yes, he has a diagnosis of PDD-NOS. He has fairly good joint attention - but that is just one of the criteria. If there are other red flags - monitor those. My son is very mild - in fact, his caseworker told me that she went into his classroom the other day and would not have picked him out as a child with autism. He has made a LOT of progress this year. But, he still has the diagnosis and he still definitely has issues. His interactions with kids are getting much better, but he hasn't caught up to their social skills level by any means. And at home, we have meltdowns still (not as often though) and some odd interactions.

Anyway, I tell you this so that you don't think to yourself - oh, my child can't have autism because he is pointing now. It doesn't mean he DOES have autism because he pointed later than typical kids, but it is something to keep an eye on. My probably NT daughter started pointing right before she was one year old. But, she has quirks as well and I just had her evaluated last week (dev ped does NOT think she is on the spectrum but told me to closely monitor her as she has a few red flags but is otherwise developmentally on target).

I've said it a lot on here, but since I haven't been on much the last few months - there are TWELVE criteria for autism. You only need 6 to get a diagnosis and no one symptom is more important than others no matter WHAT doctors tell you. There are some docs who will say if a child has good joint attention that they can't have autism. There are some who will say the child is too social. Trust me, I know several kids who are social (interested in other children) who still have autism. They just aren't appropriately social. They might give hugs when kids don't want or talk about strange things (like bedbugs - my son's new favorite thing to talk about!

Well, I've gone on long enough - just some things to think about!

My dd  did not point instictively to anything - infact we are trying so hard to get her to point to what she wants and now when she is crying for something -and I ask her to point to the object - she sticks her finger out - just in the air ( a la John Travolta!!)... The DI said that this was the first conncetion to pointing but now needs to be focussed to an object..

This is an execrise the DI has asked me to work on (but I havent got ANY success yet!) -

1. take her favorite food item/toy/whatever u know she likes
2. U will see that the object has caught her attention - now say "point "
3. Of she raises her hands - hold ur hand over her little index to MAKE a pointer and then point to the object
4. Do this every hr

Didnt want to sound pedantic but the DI wrote this down for me.

No success yet on my side tho - but dd never really pointed at anything she wanted.. like SHelley described, she hold my hand and takes me to what she wants and then cries...! When she was 14 mos or so, she could point to obects in a book -now has lost the recptive/discriminative abilitiy between obcets so she points at objectrs in the book but not the objects I ask for!!

Payne pointed a lot before he was really talking...was more of an inaudible babble...I couldn't understand him...and he would point and sometime groan or grunt when I would ignore it. I was trying to get him to say it - this is before we knew there was a problem. He now talks (a lot) in "big boy" words and has even gotten to sentences. Much progress! My girls pointed very, very late in life!  It still surpised me when I see them do it, actually :)My son is 2.5 and points at nothing, ever.  We are trying to "hand-over-hand" teach him that: you point- you will get.  (no luck yet) I consider that one of his most "severe" red flags. Cin051639126.5726851852

Here is the thing about pointing.....Everything I read says there are different TYPES of pointing that children should do.  If you look at the CHAT  (checklist for Autism in TOddlers)   it mentions a few by the questions it asks. 

 Does your child ever use his index finger to point to indicate INTEREST in something?

 Does your child ever use his/her index finger to point to ASK for something.

 

  Also children should look at the object when you point at something and say LOOK. 

Also when you ask the child "Where is the bear"  and the bear is out of reach....the child should point to the bear. 

Oh they should also point to pictures in books when you ask them to, like "Show me the duck" and they should point to the duck.

These are just examples of pointing.  The chat is given at 18 months I believe so your child has some time.  My son is 18 months this week and he isn't doing all the pointing that he should.  He does point for things he WANTS but so far any other type of pointing is inconsistant so we got reg flags going up here.

Here is a link to the CHAT.

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=128&a=2226

Take care and keep us informed

Karrie

 

 

ShellyR, How long did you have to mold her hand until she caught on and was doing it herself?Sarah would raise her whole hand to what she wanted or grab my hand and take it to whatever she wanted. If I pointed at something..she could not follow my point or follow my eyes to an object I was looking at.  We had to teach her to point by molding her hand in a fist and making her stick out her pointy finger towards something of great value to her like doritos on the mantle over and over until she did this on her own. Now she can point very well but still has problems when we point at something and ask her what we are pointing at..it has to be a large object like the couch or something for her to get it right
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